I'll say straight up that this is a vent. I don't think it would go down well in other places and might not here, either. I'm sick of hearing how strong and stoic those with cancer are, or are expected to be. If someone has cancer and is suffering pain, etc from it or from treatment, and not complaining, they are held up as some shining example of how to be. To the point that it feels like talking about the cancer or the side effects is somehow bad form and you are letting the side down. Bullshit! I'm sick of it. I don't know if it's because people are scared of the disease or find it distasteful or boring to hear about but I'm not playing that game anymore. And I don't care if such and such was so brave and never said a word about their suffering. Maybe the reality needs to be seen and understood. No, I can't do that because it hurts too much due to treatment. No, I can't manage that because I get too bloody tired due to treatment. Etc. And I'm sorry that I can't do what is expected of every other parent or worker but stop trying to make me feel guilty or difficult. I'm not whingeing and I'm weary of feeling that I am just because I'm being honest. I'm not expecting anyone to be able to sort it (except hopefully, the researchers). But I do need people to recognise that just because I'm back in the real world it does not mean that the fairy godmother has waved her wand and made it all disappear. And I do know I'm not the only one. So, maybe let's stop holding the stoic up as some sort of shining light.Okay - vent over.

Yes. Its fine to have boundaries and to acknowledge limitations. If people dont want to know how you are they shouldnt ask in my view. I dont really know how to answer some days. Is good when i dont feel like death, when my hand or feet arent painful, when my blood pressure is normal, when my hair has grown back? Cant really expect the boob to grow back. Or is good my mental state of mind? Some people are uncomfortable and only want to hear positivity. I said i wished for hair for xmas recently on fb group of friends and one friend replied that there is always someone worse off. She then posted a link to soneone who had the lower half of their body amputated. My first thought was about sensitivity and response to what was really a gee it would be nice to have hair comment. My second thought was that is a very extreme example and is that what beats my situation. She wrote something like. We know you are suffering most out of our group. What i perceived is that i was thought to be whinging. You have to be able to communicate things and you should be allowed to whinge. I said the same. I dont need my problems solved listening is all that is requiredI tell my kids, dont bother asking for friends over on chemo day, I cant go to big shopping centres on weekends so think ahead what you need, ask your dad to ferry you around if im appearing unwell.

@Sister I was never sure why some people wanted to tell me of some "superwoman" who never complained, and as they looked me squarely in the face and could see I looked like death warmed up at times when I was having my chemo treatment. I don't have emotional support, and now cannot be bothered much with many people these days. Above all, it is our loved ones that matter and what they think, the rest can just have their opinions of us and we can try not to take on board their crap of whether we are considered stoic, strong, a warrior, brave or whatever adjective they want to attach to people. I hardly complained to be honest, because I would get a comeback with the person complaining about having a broken fingernail and needed another manicure soon. I can't relate to that, but I smile and keep quiet. It is all very exhausting.

Bless you for writing and expressing exactly how I feel... I have worried that I am not being strong enough, I am trying so hard but I feel like I am failing those around me if I don't show strength . I thought it was just me... reading your post has given me the strength and understanding to realise it is in part, the emotions of the journey. A journey i am trying to use all the retric in the world on.. trying to learn from and find positives on the hard days... but sometimes i just want to go "blah blah blah" this sux, lol.. May you have a better day tomorrow. 😊

We're all different!A general comment when people meet up is how are you! It's a greeting that they don't necessarily expect a response.I'm stoic and it is who I am. Vent away at how you feel but don't put down stoicism

Vent away, @Sister - we hear you, we feel for you, cos many (if not most) are feeling the same.When people ask me how I am going .... are you OK? I say "I'm good but my body is stuffed from the cancer meds." If they want to ask about that comment - I will enlarge upon it.I used to walk everywhere 'fast' .... now it is a stumble. I find that I am no longer able to 'stand tall' - I am slightly hunched over, leaning forward, which is really annoying as it also makes you less stable. Getting in & out of the car is an interesting activity ..... thank God no-one (that i know of) have their videos going!At least, since I've been on 'the good oil' my hands and feet are not as sore/stiff as they used to be from the AIs.

Stoic? Why? Venting | Online Network

Dory65
Member
5 years ago
Agreed @Sister. Putting a BS 'positive spin' on everything - or the nauseating practice of 'gratitude' no matter what - is just glib and superficial. Call a spade a spade.
Ecup2020
Member
5 years ago
Hi sister,
Its ok to vent! I think there are a few things going on here.
Firstly, unless you have had breast cancer, you can’t ever REALLY understand what a person with BC is going through.
Secondly, when can you say you “ had” BC.Is it when you have had your surgery , chemo and radiotherapy?What if you are hormone positive and are taking the tablets for 5 years , maybe more?
Thirdly, because non BC people don’t know exactly what we are going through, sometimes they don’t know what to say or do and their comments may come across as clumsy , inappropriate , thoughtless or in extreme cases, cruel.I had a single mastectomy and a person I thought was a friend said “ why didn’t you get the other one off “.I actually said “ because I’m an optimist”. After that I went home and did a bit more crying.
Fourthly, following on from that point, most people have no idea what is involved with surgery and treatment , I know I didn’t.I was completely shocked with the level of pain I felt following the mastectomy and how the painkillers mucked with my head ( not to mention the general cognitive impairment from the shock and emotional turmoil of diagnosis).So when they expect you to have “ bounced back” after surgery or other treatment, it’s hard not to want to punch them.
Fifthly, I think it’s ok to say “ I’m not well and I can’t do that “ , I have learnt to say “ no” to a whole lot of things and felt absolutely zero guilt about it.IP
I also think a lot of people are very private and don’t want to draw attention to their BC , so this helps perpetuate the view amongst some that people who talk about their problems with BC are malingerers/ whingers.
Everyone is different but that doesn’t make it any easier when people expect you to “be positive “ when you are grieving about your earlier cancer free self.
I actually liken a diagnosis of BC to grieving the loss of a loved one , and no one ever asks you to be “ positive” about that.
it is great that this network exists for venting, supporting, informing , chatting and just “ being”.
Zoffiel
Member
5 years ago
Aye, @Ecup2020. My desire to punch/slap/trip / blowtorch idiots has increased at about the same rate my ability to effectively do it has decreased. It was a gift now past...
Keeping_positiv
Member
5 years ago
@Sister I was never sure why some people wanted to tell me of some "superwoman" who never complained, and as they looked me squarely in the face and could see I looked like death warmed up at times when I was having my chemo treatment.

I don't have emotional support, and now cannot be bothered much with many people these days.

Above all, it is our loved ones that matter and what they think, the rest can just have their opinions of us and we can try not to take on board their crap of whether we are considered stoic, strong, a warrior, brave or whatever adjective they want to attach to people. I hardly complained to be honest, because I would get a comeback with the person complaining about having a broken fingernail and needed another manicure soon. I can't relate to that, but I smile and keep quiet.

It is all very exhausting.
Sister
Member
5 years ago
I do try not to have to explain more than once. I do try to do as much as I can (eg. happy to help with that extra event in the morning but don't put me on afternoons, etc). I know that people don't really want to know and that's fine. I just want to not be judged as somehow less worthy.

Thank you for listening to my rant and for the support.
Greengirl
Member
5 years ago
I couldn’t agree more @Sister 😘
kamada
Member
5 years ago
Hear you @Sister! I ended up almost resenting being told how well I was coping and how positive I was etc etc. Even though I knew it was well meaning and meant as encouragement I started to feel I always had to present myself in the strongest possible light. Yes there were times when I did feel stoic or brave or lucky or whatever but there were also times when I was so resentful or scared or feeling absolutely shitty but I ended up not giving an honest response even when what I really wanted was a shoulder to cry it all out on because I didn’t want to seen as weak or not coping. I have learnt that reactions are complex and at times contradictory when dealing with such long treatments and side effects etc and I agree with the others that until you are in a situation you can’t truly understand no matter how hard you try to emphasise. It is such a blessing to have this place where there is no barrier to laying it all out in the open knowing you are surrounded by those who offer nothing but understanding and support with no judgement so get out there and to hell with other people’s opinions or judgements. 😘
Zoffiel
Member
5 years ago
@sister none of us are less worthy. We may be damaged, broken, staggering in circles, exhausted, confused and generally battle weary, but anyone who thinks they can do better .... Ah, I can't wish misfortune on anyone, it's bad karma. Or something.
If they had to walk a mile in our shoes, there would be a terrible sooking of the la-las. Trudge 500 miles, then they might get it. Mxx
Tasia
Member
5 years ago
I love this discussion - its heart speak, not mind speak. Thank you x

I cringe when someones vocal chords have mastered the - how are you question? feeling better?
Followed by ʻjust be positiveʻ ʻyou have to fight this there are people in worse situationʻ ʻI know, I knowʻ
Followed by a barrage of their unwellness stories ʻsore neckʻ ʻheadacheʻ ʻtired from workʻ

I have minimal tolerance these days and shut down. Itʻs not that I am disinterested or do not empathise however, I do think please spare me!
Anj_j2020
Member
5 years ago
Stoicism is a coping mechanism like any other. x

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