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jd48's avatar
jd48
Member
10 years ago

NEED ADVICE PLEASE - anyone that had/has AC CHEMO

LADIES I DEPERATELY AND URGENTLY NEED YOUR ADVICE if you have had or are having AC CHEMO as I am in a very bad place right now and do not know how to proceed and need it figured out in a matter of days.

Some of you may have seen my AC Chemo blogs where I reported some rather severe tummy issues ranging from burning backside to 'round the clock' relenteless gas expulsions and the latest which no chance to write about would be an instance of severe diahrea on day 9 mixed in with dark sticky blood.

I have also experienced significant weight loss in the initial few days post Chemo and significant drop in my pulse rate which went for several days.

Well - I have only had 1 AC Chemo thus far 11 days ago.

I also had all the sideffects I believed to be 'standard' like nausea, tiredness, tinnitus, headache, etc... But the reason I am separating the tummy ones and weightloss is that I saw the Oncologist yesterday and he because of the weightloss and the afternoon of bloody diahrea I had the day before wants to stop my Chemo.

I have a grade/type 3 cancer and the damn thing was 3cm when they took it out. I had clear margins BUT they did find a 2nd cancer in the margin invisible on scans so for all anyone knows there are others in my boobs and/or elsewhere in my body even though the single sentinal node they took out was clear.

I have many other conditions and some serious allergies and my body does not react to meds in normal expected ways so obviously I was apprehensive about Chemo but was repeatedly told that my grade of cancer needed Chemo as was particulary agressive (I scored 68% where apprently anything over 25 is deemed very agressive).

They took a bit too long to start Chemo - 7 weeks post surgery but were reassuring me delays meant nothing as once started Chemo would wipe out anything in there. Also I was only to have 4 sessions of AC as apprently my allergies prevented them giving me TC which they felt more suitable for my cancer. Plus I should have then had weekly I believe Taxol and some other stuff had it not been for my allergies so for me they would only do minimal AC duration then radiation then Tamoxifen or whatever they found suitable.

it was bad enough knowing I was going into this with a watered down version of treatment when I have a particularly agressive bastard festering in me... It was worse knowing there have been delays and even worse fearing own reaction to chemo as there was no knowing what my body would do.

I have never in a single moment in time cared about the level of unpleasantness or pain or whatever the damn thing would do to me - I made it clear to them my only care was to stay alive at the end of Chemo (ideally not with major new illnesses or injuries).

When I was going through discovering the significant weightloss I called the cancer centre explained what was going on, explained pulse change and ocassional feeling of weakness and being dizy - they consulted doctors and said not to worry.

When the 4 bouts of bloody painfull diahrea hit on day 9 I called them and again was told not to worry about the bleed as long as my blood pressure was OK - to treat it as any other diahrea.

So you can imagine my shock and dismay when Oncologist told me yesterday just 3 minutes into consultation (his first question ' have there been any sideeffects that worried you ' and I answered 'just the ones i telephoned about' to see he head no clue I had even been calling so I listed the weightloss, pulse and bloody diahrea) "We have to stop the chemo"

I thought it was a joke but he was serious. Seeing me looking dhocked and dismayed he repeated "We are stopping your Chemo".

Had someone hit me over the head it would have been less distressing and less of a shock.

The rest of the consultation was me pleeding with him in dismay not to just abandon it as obviously I got through it thus far and him pretty much saying "how can we continue when your body is reacting in ways nobody has ever reacted and we have no way of predictng what it will do next".

He is an elderly guy, experienced and a professor in the field. Everyone holds him in great esteem and he pretty much is as senior as it gets in the hospital and I do believe him when he says that he does know a lot about sideffects and how people react and when he says he has never seen it even in medical literature that someone had these 3 particular reactions to AC.

He feels they are that abnormal that it warrants stopping Chemo. Yes that will significantly drop my chance for long term survival as not having full Chemo was big enough deal but now that I have had all those delays by the time radiation is done if they even decide to proceed with that part there are even further delays. Then it will all rely on my being able to tollerate hormone supressants and they already have their doubts I will be able to tollerate them at all.

I obviously do not want to drop dead come next AC Chemo round but at the same time I at the age of 44 am not prepared to just give up and wait for cancer to wipe me out without a fight.

We ended the appointment with him agreeing to consider doing 1 more AC round providing the remaining week and a half are 'univentfull' as I am supposed to have AC every 3 weeks. The other condition is my being cleared by a Gastroenterologist in the meanhwile not that I have a clue how to get in and see one as there is normally 3 to 5 month wait for the only 2 I ever saw. 

Unfortunately my next week and a half will not be uneventfull. I am due to start my period any second now and my periods are debilitating and accompanied with severe bleeds, severe neuralgias, stomach problems, heart probelms, weird unexepected allergies etc at the best of times. Now that I am day 11 of first round of AC and already having intestinal problems, neuralgia and bleeds God only knows what will happen.

So I have to base my decision how to proceed on something other than what my body does in the next week and a half.

I NEED YOUR HELP PLEASE. 

I honestly do not care if the literature says that my 'deal breaker' 3 things nobody ever experiences. To me that means nothing as maybe they are not all that uncommon. Maybe others experience the same but do not report it as like me they have no clue that is 'out of the norm'. I know that I do not tell doctors 95% of what happens to me healthwhise as frankly most of the time we are considered 'hysterical women' that are 'too aware of our own body' if we have too many details - learned that a long time ago... I also know that a lot of time, us women, as long as we get through a hell of some.sort, we just write things off to 'it is over now so why rehash it' and we put up with a hell of a lot od pain and discomfort that at the time may have scared us and never seek medical help at the time.

I need anyone that has had AC Chemo to please help me by sharing if they have had any of these symptoms (or if not frankly please say 'none of that' as knowing that nobody did will help me understand my situation too). If this is trully that bizzare and unexpected then obviously I may have to stop chemo. Or if others had the same and it was a sign of a serious problem. But if others have experienced this too and just part of 'good end/outcome' then at least I know it is worth proceeding and fighting they let me continue chemo.

The 3 things I need to know if anyone has eperienced (at any round / day not just when they happened to me) are:

 - Significant weight loss (as in several kg in under 4 days) while hydrated well, eating normally and not experiencing vomiting serious diahrea etc. 

 - Temporary changes in pulse rate (my pulse rate due to being overweight is in mid to high 80s) but in initial 5 days most of the time it was in low 60s sometimes low to mid 70s and have been having bouts of these drops happen still (not as prolongued as in the initial 4-5 days). I was on icassions feeling weak and almost shaky but would dissaper if I ate anything immediately

 - bouts of runs (diahrea) with presence of dark blood accompanied with strong intestinal pain in lower abdomen some week to 9 days post chemo. This for me was 4 to 5 such loo trips in 4 hours. There was no blood gashing as such - just that it was clearly noticable in the stool and on the toilet paper. The reason I mentioned 'dark blood' is that I know light means a hemmoroid or a fissure that has simply been injured by repeated emptying of bowels. Dark means a bleed someplace in the intestinal tract as blood is not as close to the 'exit' so starts to kind of thicken and darken along the way. Also there were no bleeds outside of actual loo sessions. Not sure if this makes a difference but I believe this bout of runs was the last of the chemo toxins leaving the body as after that any loo trips stopped burning plus there was a return or the more 'normal smell' to any subsequent stools. 

Again, I know I might be asking a lot in asking you to share this but if anyone could help me please I would trully appreciate it as I need to be able to make a decision if to proceed with Chemo which for my cancer is I guess essential and to find a way to persuade the Oncologist to let me do so. If you are willing to share this information but not wanting it on a forum post please message me.

I know it can be dangerous to go against medical advice which is exactly why I am asking for this. I am not stupid to ignore his advice and their opinion and gamble my life. I just know they are not infallable and that there is a chance others have had same or similar issues just did not report them as maybe not living in a weird body like mine that has several preexisting conditions to need to monitor so did not think it relevant to report weird things like these.

Thank you in advance

Jel.

20 Replies

  • Thank you Soldier Crab

    I am going to check out the site and have organised to meet up with the breast care nurse tomorrow as I definitely need help.

    My fear is that if they stop AC they wiwi not attempt any other Chemo.so really worried on that account that no chemo at all plus delays means trouble. But I guess whatever does happen I will have to deal with it.

    I guess I am frustrated as well as, as alarming a lot of the things that happened were I put up with them and the one time I said anything it is kind of "oh well - you find it too hard so we will scrap it".

    Just feel so rired and frustrated - damned if I do soeak up and damned if I don't 

    Jel.

  • Ouch Skitzy so sorry to hear that.

    I hope they call you tomorrow with news and that the planned injection helps.

    As far as I go they are not willing to try anything else - AC supposedly is the lowest chance of allergic reactions so the only one they were willing to put me on ??

    Jel.

  • Hi JD48

    I had TNBC also .....I had all your symptoms while on TAC they then changed me to AC but after 2 cycles we had to stop it as I wasn't tolerating it at all. Like YOU I am Medically special if there is a weird rare reaction  I get it. I then started 12 rounds of PACLItaxel... after the 6th round I got severe peripheral neuropathy. that was then stopped they then put me onto CFM a chemo for frail aged people even on that I had to go onto 1/2 dose,  I tell you this because I was very scared about the long term prognosis because of stopping my chemos.... I am here Cancer FREE  3.5 years later 

    I was attended A&E via ambulance a few times while this was happening. I had the burning, I had the blood like yours I had the wind like hurricanes etc etc. My heart (which I had no previous problems with) was so weird they had me having this test and that test all to no answer.

    Do you know about the www.eviq.org.au site I found it very helpful.

    we had to stop my PACLItaxel as I was like a person with severe Parkinsons.... my kids called me Jelly lady dancer.... we can laugh now but I was very distressed.... Do you have a Breast Care Nurse.... Ask her to help you get all the information you need.  

    Listen and read and Make informed choices that are right for you we are all individuals and our bodies are unique 

    Take care 

    Soldier Crab

  • I had my 2nd cycle of AC on the 10TH May & on day 5 got severe pains in my stomach & back with profuse sweating & vomiting, I also lost fresh blood with a chemical smell so ended up in A&E with a CT scan which showed colitis. The DR'S thought it was chemo induced & I ended up being in for 10 days, while there my white blood cells went down to 0.08 so I needed an injection to boost them back up.

    My oncologist was informed by the surgical team & he advised that in future I would be given the injection for my blood cells. I am due my 3rd cycle on Tuesday the 31ST. I am so worried about the colitis appearing again & was told the chemo may be delayed & the oncologist would be ringing me but he has not been in touch up to today. 

    I hope things work out for you & that they can perhaps give you a different type of chemo with less side effects.

  • Hi,

    I have just finished 4 rounds of ac chemo every three weeks, and had my first of 12 Taxols yesterday.

    I did not notice low heart rate, but at some times my blood pressure dropped to low 100's over something, which is unusual for me as I am high blood pressure medication. At times felt light headed, but not sure I would pin it down to low pulse, with everything else going on.

    I didn't have bowel problems until the last 2 rounds, where I had not exactly diarrhoea (no need to rush urgently to the toilet), but looser than normal stools, accompanied by fresh blood which I think was probably from fissures. 

    My weight has stayed relatively stable, varying up or down 1 to 2 kilos.

    I hope this info helps. I am sure you know you could get a second opinion, even if your guy is "the best".

    ps, After my relatively straightforward ride with AC, I had an allergic reaction to the Taxol yesterday, but it was controlled with extra steroids and Phenergan, so I was able to continue. Knew I would pay somewhere along the line!

    Good luck with your ongoing treatment, hope it's not too challenging.

    Jane

  • Thank you Nadine. Helps to know others managed to get Chemo continued where Oncologist wanted to just terminate it initially.

    Yes they have a panel here as well but they pretty much I think will go with what he deems best. He I believe is the Head of Oncology and the most experienced one in that area.

    Panel had originally recommended Taxol after AC but he objected based on my health history and they agreed with him as he is deemed the most experienced so if he says 'no' I believe they will go with that.

    I was pleeding with him to give it another chance and to go through the 2nd session and he finally agreed to consider it but there is will a week and a half to go until then and that decision has not been fianlised. I am working on getting support from a Gastrologist or at least a plan to manage repeat of those bleeds and will push to somehow get a Cardiology appointment in the meanwhile as well.

    I have just 1 week to get my evidence though.

    That is why I am asking others for help with these 3 sideeffects I had as I honestly cannot imagine I would be the only one. It beats logic. Maybe I get to be the only one with all 3 but there must have been others having exlerienced at least 1 of them. If I am not the only one that helps understand risks better.

    I obvioulsy do not want to stop Chemo but at the same time if others did have similar experience and it was something serious that too I would need to consider.

    I wish that just once in my life I had not proven to be 'medically special'.

    Jel.

  • Hi Jel. I didn't have AC but I did have some symptoms with my chemo which were unusual that made my oncologist question whether to stop treatment. Like you I was freaked out because my cancer was aggressive Grade 3 with a Ki67 proliferation rate of 75%.  My oncologist took my case to what I think was called the Oncology Board. In the ACT, the board is made up of different chemo and radiation oncologists across different hospitals. It meets once a week to triage people newly diagnosed (who gets chemo first based on who is worse off) and to discuss unusual symptoms of patients. She presented me as a case study and got the views of other oncologists. They came to an agreement that treatment could continue with extra monitoring. I wonder if there is something similar in your state?? Maybe you can look online.

    I really hope things start to improve for you. Take care, Nadine

  • Thank you Brenda - helps to know I was not the only arrythmia and slow beat person.

    He does not think 1 is enough as they wanted to go way stronger than just the planned 4 ACs but he thinks my reactions to be too weird and upredictabe which is why he wants to stop.

    I agree with you that just a single afternoon of intestinal bleeds should not have them give up on me having Chemo.

    My bloodwork has been fine thus wos (they did them at days 8 and 11) too which is why him wanting to abandon chemo is so upsetting.

    I am doing blood again this Friday and he agreed to check my sugar and thyroid but I will need way more than good blood test to persuade him not to stop the Chemo.

    Thank you again

    Jel.

  • Chances are you will not have your regular period during chemo treatment. Worry about it if and when that bit happens.

    The bleeding is a worry from the colon but if its just on the paper and a bit in the stool that's probably not grounds for ceasing chemo. You should have a blood test a few days before the next scheduled dose and things will be a bit clearer then what's going on and if your body is good to go for another dose.

    The heart rate is a worry and it scared the hell outa me. Often I wanted to ring the ambos but seemed to muddle though and get over it by myself. My oncologist just looked at me like I was lying when I said for 12 hours my heart didn't have a rhythm, it was all over the place yet I was able to make it up the hall to the toilet under my own speed. I figured it out myself that it was my body in shock and for some unknown reason for me, taking Targin pain meds worked and my heart would settle straight away. The doctor could not explain this but was happy it worked. I only needed to take meds for a day or three, just to get over the initial nasties. Dr's still haven't bothered to do any heart checks so I figure I must be ok. I'm not dead yet lol.

    See how you go the next week or so and perhaps have another oncology appointment just before any scheduled next dose. Blood tests may say you are good or you need at least another week to get over things. Three weekly is standard but there's nothing to say you can't have it 4 weekly instead. Perhaps the oncologist feels one dose was enough? I know that first one is a doozy so it could be enough.

    Doses 2 and 3 were bad for me. My oesophagus went weird and I had terrible burning, reflux and bloat which made breathing difficult. I ate very little after dose 4 and that seemed to fix me up. Extra meds was just too much for me and I got though just taking it easy.